another e tea party revolt brewing? good morning and thanks for getting up with us. overnight, public anger has continued to grow in the wake of the coal mine fire in turkey that's killed 301 miners. yesterday the government of turkey sent in riot police to remove the families of the miners from outside the mine. it's not because they need to contain the protesters because they have been peaceful and lighted candles and lined up mining helmets to represent the victims of the disaster, but the

government wanted to get them off the streets to keep them from asking questions because the mining company admitted yesterday that there was no escape chamber and there wasn't even an alarm when the fire broke out. in virginia two coal miners were killed in boone county. the politics of coal are now at the center of the senate race in west virginia. we learned this week in tuesday's primary there will be two women facing off many the fight for the seat. only three people have won elections from the state of west virginia since 1959 in the last 55 years and all of them are democrats. rockefeller is one of them. . and current senator joe mansion. the democratic tradition in west virginia is seriously threatened as the state moves closer and closer to the national republican party. it's a move that's only accelerated many the obama era. now with controls on the line, it's up to the democratic nominee in west virginia natalie

tenant to fight that trend and keep that seat in her party's column. she will be on the show with us this morning to talk about the uphill battle she faces and to answer questions about issues she would and wouldn't tackle with the voters of west virginia. it's also been a week, almost an entire month really of trying to gauge not only how democrats will fair in the midterms but how the republican party will emerge from november's midterms. even if the gop wins. "the washington post" reports conservatives are worried because they don't think they have done as well as they should have and they are worried they might not have as much influence as they would like, even if republicans do win in november. quoting from the article, some of washington's leading conservatives gathered to privately vent frustrations about what kind of party they will be left with after november. a group in recent primaries what

drafted demands calling on the party to recommit to bedrock principles. here to discuss this and other political news this morning, political columnist with the guardian and former white house aid to george h.w. bush. the pastry plate just caught my eye. >> it's more of a break past tray today. >> the cookie is calling me. >> that's your cookie. let's talk about this tea party revolt. i'm not sure how to classify it anymore. e we talk about the tea party and there's sort of the economic libertarian aspect of. but what this seems to be to read this article is this is a

revolt of social conservatives. like ted cruz spoke at this event. immigration, we know that, but immigration, abortion, same-sex marriage. this is saying it's the cultural issues they want to be pressing. >> robert didn't use the term tea party all that often in the piece. he called it a conservative revolt. but we think the tea party of originating in the stimulus spending. there was a lot of concern about spending, about big government, government growth and taxes. and now it seems at least this rump of it has devolved back into a christian right orientation with very little said about economic issues. and really, again, another way for ted cruz to say, look at me, i'm the only true conservative you have. >> i actually think this is not

a def lugs. the tea party was the outliar. it was like really populous in its anger. its parallel was occupied. these republicans i recognize from 20 years ago. as a progressive, i have to say, keep going, take on the culture more. talk about hillary and take on the culture war. >> because we won. >> tell us what's going on in the party. we talk about it and it's always seemed overly simplistic to say it's the establishment versus the tea party. we have looked at the ways they are mimicking the tea party when it comes to how they vote. now there's this new strain -- resurgent strain and it seems like the party establishment don't want to be stressing issues like gay marriage, abortion, even immigration to a lesser extent.

that's a little more widespread, but abortion, same-sex marriage, there's a lot of the party that want to move beyond that. >> these are the growing pains you feel when a party is in the process of becoming a bigger tent. in order for republicans to win in the midterms and to be competitive in 2016 given what the numbers look like today, the only way the party wins is to become a bigger tent than it has been in the past. it has to be people who have been pushed away by the party in the past. it's kbot to include women, minors, african-americans, hispanics. it has to include people from the lgbt community. people who may agree with republicans on fiscal issues, but who may have some disagreement on some of the social matters. so there are republicans that are saying, let's win. let's talk about it and be able to agree to disagree.

look at democrats. democrats don't agree on every issue. there are democrats that are pro life and some that are pro choice, but why can't republicans be the same thing. >> it's so hilarious to hear that. i'm old enough to remember when it was the democrats that used to complain about we shoot our own. we used to be the party that could not stick together for the life of us. it's funny to hear that it's the republicans that can't do this. i just want to add the idea that they are trying to stake out their claim is a real problem for the appeal to minorities as well as women. there are several issues where minorities are on the side of progressives. so this isn't just about you need to pay attention. your policies have to match up to what they like or at least to be able to speak to what they would like. i was also going to say it's n funny with the tea party rhetoric. a lot of conservatives got away with rhetoric because it became clear you would have to compromise on financial policy.

on these social issues, there's no gray area for a lot of people. this is a litmus test in a way that financial policy really isn't. these conservatives really are taking a big risk. it was last year the house passed that 20-week abortion ban. there's been more attempts at action by lawmakers and by republican accomplishment to respond to this, but they want more. let's see what happens if they do emerge. if republicans hold the house or take back the senate, let's e see if that's the agenda they push. a lot of media attention has been focused on hillary clinton, as you probably heard, because of karl rove's attack on her health. yesterday hillary clinton changed the conversation back to policy. speaking at a new america foundation event, she discussed income inequality. here's what she said. >> by policy choices we can turn

surpluses into debt, e we can return to rising deficits. that's what happens when your only policy prescription is to cut taxes for the wealthy. and then to deal with the aftermath of a terrible terrorist attack and two wars without paying for them. regulators neglected their oversight of the financial sector and allowed the evolution of an entire shadow banking system that operated without accountability. >> very dramatic with the all black background like that. i'll tell you what struck me listening to that was she's kind of giving you if this is the message she ends up carrying as a presidential candidate, that's a back to the '90s message. i can see it working better in 2016 than in 2008. because in 2008 she was saddled with the iraq war vote and saying, you know, you want another clinton in the white house, democrats were reminded

of her vote in '02 and the hawkish foreign policy. now when you're talking about back to the '90s, you're talking about the context of look at the economy in the 1990s. look at how under bill clinton the economy was managed. i think it's a contrast that works better for her. >> i think so too. i mean i was encouraged by what i heard in that speech, but just as in 2008 she was saddled with her iraq war position, here these years she's going to be saddled with a little bit of skepticism that she's going to be tough enough on wall street and a populous leader in terms of saying we have to raise some top tax rates. leave the middle class alone but we really once had -- the tax rates that build the great american middle class were much higher. they were much higher and we have to be able -- no one is talking about the warren buffett tax. no one is talking about taxes that we were talking about even a couple years ago.

and to pay for the policies basically needed to restore income inequality, she's going to have to be a hawk. >> we had elizabeth warren on the show. in a book about ten years ago, she criticized hillary clinton before she was a senator and political figure, she criticized her for changing her position on a bankruptcy bill and saying once she became a senator from new york she was responsive to wall street. so i asked her basically to repeat that criticism that wall street got its hooks into hillary clinton. she wouldn't say it on the air. she would not go where she newsed to go. >> the welfare rvrm is one of the biggest contributors to income inequality we had. that was a clinton reform that i really don't want to go back to that. it was a disaster for america's working class. i just think she doesn't have credibility on this issue

whatsoever. also i like her. there's so many things to like about hillary. on this particular issue for the clintons, for both of them, their rhetoric has never matched up to reality. i have a vivid memory of 2007 of her getting up there and saying lob yi lobbyists are people too. >> in all fairness of the clintons, i would say it's bill clinton's first budget that raised taxes on the wealthy. i want to squeeze one more in he here. this is a fun one. democrats still haven't decided whether to boycott the special committee on benghazi, but on thursday "the washington post" wrote about a movement that's gaining some traction on the left. the idea is to take only one of the five seats on that committee that republicans are offering democrats and to give it to someone "well schooled in mixing it up with republican crazy."

some liberal groups are actively collecting signatures for this idea and was asked about it. he's expressed his interest to nancy pelosi and if she decides to have democratic members participate, i'd like to be one of them. republicans are going to put on a circus. if we give them the full five seats, we're going to legitimize this thing. if we boycott it, we let them run wild. let's compromise and send allen grayson and show people what a farce this is. would republicans like this? >> are grayson is somebody to contend with. he's the 11th wealthiest member of congress. he has a net worth between. $35 and $60 million. very smart, somebody who is easily able to combat with republicans to fight with republicans. the whole deal though, i agree with the committee chair. this ought to be just a joe

friday just the facts police deal. >> the point is we have had those. >> i agree. if there's nothing there, it ought to just go away. at least the families ought to know the facts and people who care ought to know the facts so we don't make whatever mistakes were made for the future. >> this is going to be like repealing obamacare. this is going to be like the 100th benghazi committee. it was a tragedy. i think there was a lot to learn from it still. but i'm not sure that the things that we're learning from it comes from committees. >> do you think the democrats should boycott it? >> the thing is unfortunately because it was such a tragedy and i think to make a mockery of that committee would unfortunately i think sort of taint the actual event. i say go or boycott it but don't send allen grayson.

>> we will see the panel later in the show. coming up, a newly minted democratic nominee in a must-win senate race for the democratic party olympic she join in voting to expand background checks for gun purchases? she comes from a very red state. i'll ask her that question, next.

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i just saved 15% on cari'm insurance in 15 minutes. don't live in beatrice's world. live in the modern world where 7 and a half minutes could save you on car insurance. esurance. click or call. you're not doing anything as fast as you used to, which is funny, because i still do it better than her. [ afi ] i do not like sweeping. it's a little frustrating. [ zach ] i can't help out as much as i used to. do you need help? let's open it up. [ afi ] it's a swiffer sweeper. [ zach ] it's a swiffer dusters. it can extend so i don't have to get on the step stool. ♪ it's like a dirt magnet -- just like my kids. [ afi ] this is a danger zone. voila! i am the queen of clean! [ zach ] yeah, this definitely beats hanging out on a step ladder. in 2010 as he won reelection, president obama was crushed in the state of west virginia. lost it to mitt romney by 26

points. his approval rating is now below 30%. the president standing in west virginia is so weak that in a 2012 democratic primaries a federal inmate who was served a 20-year prison term somehow made the ballot against obama and pulled in 41% of the vote. judd beat obama, the sitting president of the united states in ten of west virginia's 55 counties. and this was in the democratic primary, in obama's own party. when that primary was held joe mansion was asked who he voted for. mansion refused to answer. part of this has to do with the president's efforts to fight coal emissions to west virginia's economy. but it may go deeper than that. in 2008 before he was president obama last west virginia's democratic primary to hillary clinton by 41 points. that was his worst showing in

any primary that year. exit polls found 1 in 5 white voters said race was a factor in you they had voted. so obama facing that kind of resistance in west virginia, no wonder republicans are favored to win an open senate race in the state this year. a polling average shows that the republican west virginia voters picked as their candidate this week shelley moore capito is running about 12 points ahead. she's one of the more moderate voting records. but win a bet by telling your friends this. this is a list of the six state elected officials in west virginia right now. in all of them, all six of them are democrats. democrats also control both houses of the west virginia senate legislature and they outnumber republicans by 2 to 1 among registered voters. this is the other story of west virginia. this is a state that's trended more and more republican in

national elections, but within its borders the democratic party remaines alive and well. natalie tenant, the nominee for senate, is one of those democrats who currently holds office in the state. she's won two races for secretary of state, also previously a television news reporter and also first female to serve as west virginia university's mascot. and now she's her party's choice to run for the senate. deep and strong democratic tradition make s it a wild card in this year's battle for control of the u.s. senate. yes, it's a state that's hostile to president obama and the national democratic party, but it hasn't given up on the democratic party altogether. it could remain more competitive than we're expecting it it to be right now. if natalie e te innocent wins this race and denies a seat they are count iing on picking up, i will blow up the midterm math. if democrats can win this race,

it gets harder to see them losing the senate. natalie ten nant was here this week. >> you're talking to an undecided voter in west virginia. that voter did not vote for president obama and doesn't like the job he's doing. why should that voter vote pr somebody in his party who will give his party control of the senate? >> guess what, chances are that same voter you talked to voted for me in 2012. i won with 62% of the vote with president obama on the ballot. and chances are they voted for me and the reason they voted for me was because i am a person who puts west virginia first. you can call it an independent thinker, independent leader, just call it doing right by west virginia is what i did. this is a race that is about west virginia. this is about someone who represents west virginia and what we do and what we believe in and not washington. >> and i understand that,

although i want to just follow up because the numbers for obama are so striking for me. looking at one thing in particular that jumps out at me when i look at president obama and the west virginia is the primary in 2012. the presidential primary in west virginia. sitting president of the united states was running against a convicted felon got 41% of the vote in the contractic primary in west virginia against a sitting president. he won ten counties. joe mansion wouldn't eep tell the press who he voted for. the question that raises with me is there seems to be a particular sort of ground swell of resentment towards president obama in west virginia. what's that about? where does that come from? how can he lose 41% of the vote in a democratic primary in west virginia? >> there are some policies, and we have talked about this that have hurt west virginia. and our economy is based on our energy. it's based on coal and it's

based on natural gas. we do not want someone who is coming in and attacking our jobs. work with us, not against us. >> your opponent was asked this week what are the top issues you're running on, what's the overall message. she said there were two things she cited. i want to take these one at a time. one is she said stopping the war on coal. you alluded to this about why president obama might have such high unpopularity in west virginia. he has the epa issuing new regulations on coal-fired plants. but that idea of a war on coal, we hear that term so much. let's take that concept. do you agree, is the obama administration waging a war on coal? >> i don't define it or try to put an adjective on it. you look at what the policies are. if you're fighting and you're trying to put a stop to our energy jobs, here's what we're asking for. don't put some expectation or

this high standard with unrealistic technology and unfair technologies that aren't even being used yet. that's what i'm asking for. this might be part of the difference that we talk about is i'm asking for us to work with us and not against us. when we start talking about you think of the coal industry, you think of the coal companies but it's folks who work and were asked the same questions, what would happen with the regulations, they look around the room and they say some of these people aren't going to have jobs. they are the ones trying to make a difference by reclaiming the land and making energy bricks or the technology that we're using at our universities. >> it's such a tough and sensitive issue. i wonder if there really is a way. you represent a state where the economy and where jobs where coal is a big part of the economy and such a significant factor. that's what people care about.

totally understand that. at the same time, we have seen these stories nationally about the new climate report that the white house commission reported out basically saying global warming is not a thing that's happening in the future. it's happening now. temperatures have gone up all around the world. the glaciers are melting away in antarctica. re realistically if we're going to take significant action before it's too late on climate change before it gets worst, it's there going to be a cost of jobs in some states like yours? >> i don't accept the notion we have to choose between clean air and jobs. we can work to invest on what we are trying to do. i talk about an energy brick that's being made. or i talk to an independent coal operator who says i have been doing this. i have been working on this. i'm trying to do this. we have a national lab in

morgantown. it's under the department of energy. we have the national research center for coal and energy that's working on these types of technologies that will -- that the companies will want to use because it will allow them to have fair competition and they will benefit from it too. we shouldn't be one or the other. it it shouldn't be regulation or nothing. we should be working together on this. >> i said there were two issues she singled out. the second one was rolling back the devastating effects of obamacare. this is something we're hearing from republican candidates across the country. they want to run many 2014 the way they did in 2010 against obamacare. first of all, if you had been in the senate in 20 o 10, would you have voted for affordable care act? >> the fact is i didn't vote for it. i didn't have the opportunity to debate it. had i, i would have stood up for west virginia and said we need more than one provider. we need choice. we need competition because our rates are higher.

>> is it a good thing that they had that opportunity, they passed what they could pass. it's the first time after a hundred years of trying. is it good they got it through? >> i will never vote to go back to the days when insurance companies could deny someone health care coverage because they have a sick child or they have a preexisting condition. i have my own experiences with th that. my daughter had open heart surgery when she was a week old and survived that surgery. but when my husband and i started our small business and calling for insurance and i came home and he said they would cover me and cover you but they wouldn't cover our daughter. so what parent takes something that their child can't have. so i will absolutely stand up and defend a family who has a sick child or someone with a preexisting condition because no family should have to go what i go through. for her to say she would turn her back on west virginians and take away that coverage that they now have is not prowest

virginia. there goes her washington ways. >> that's an interesting point to make. it seems to me there's a difference when you do polling. if you ask about obamacare in a state like west virginia it's going to be unpopular. you're talking in terms of the specific benefits that are part of this law that are now being implemented and if you would repeal this law, you lose this benefit and that benefit. does that change the politics? >> that's the reality though. you can't say no 51 times to something because there are consequences. votes have consequences. her vote would have a consequence to take it away for people with preexisting conditions. to take away benefits for coal miners who have black lung that is part of that. they have consequences and it shut down government. >> when you look at the opposition that exists to obamacare, how much of it is the name? we gave all the stats at the top.

how much of the opposition is the name is out there and people want to oppose it? >> i can't really answer that question because this is about a policy that needs changed for west virginia in terms of competition for our families in terms of common sense approach for small businesses and at the same time, make sure the benefits that are helpful to the 125,000 who now have health insurance is so important and not take that away. >> so if natalie does get to go to washington as a democratic senator, what would she vote for and vote against? will she stand by the background check bill sponsored by joe mansion? the rest of our interview when we come back. in retirement, will you outlive your money? uhhh. no, that can't happen. that's the thing, you don't know how long it has to last. everyone has retirement questions. so ameriprise created the exclusive.. confident retirement approach.

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if natalie tennant is elected senator from west virginia, she will have to balance the demands of her party against the poll itics of her state. i asked her how that would play

out when it actually comes time to vote on the most important issues facing the country right now. >> the current senior senator from west virginia joe mansion would -- >> rockefeller. he's not gone yet. >> next year he will be the senior senator. he is backing and has introduced and last year failed to breakthrough a filibuster a background checks bill. is that something you would support if you were in the u.s. senate? >> i'm pro second amendment and i'm pro second amendment right. when you grow up on a farm like i did and learn how to be around guns and respect it, it's important that i go back and depending on how that piece of legislation is written that i go back and talk to west virginians and say how are we going to use this and does this fit for west virginia. because what fits for west virginia doesn't fit across the country. >> he's been the face of this bill for more than a year now.

>> there's already been some tweaks made to it also especi especially for rural states. that's why it's important to really take a look at this. >> at this point, would you support it? >> i don't know what the new tweaks are and what they wanted to add to it but states should be looking at how it affects them. it's not a one-size-fits all approach. we have tradition, it's our heritage and certain ly that's what i have been able -- what i have been saying and who i am with the way i grew up and the way many west virginians are that we respect it, we honor our ability to be able to have guns. >> the employment and nondiscrimination act. it was originally introduced 20 years ago. it failed by one vote then. it has never passed then. if you're gay, you can't be discriminated. would you support that?

>> yes. i'm the only elected official who has part of her employee policy as secretary of state. >> the other is immigration. we have been talking about this for how long in washington. a comprehensive immigration reform bill made through the senate last year. it includes a pathway to citizenship to take 10 to 13 years. all sorts of penalties and steps. this passed the senate last year. the question is will the house put it up for a vote. if that comes up next year, is that a bill you would support? >> there's no question that the system is broken. the immigration system that we have. and that we can't have people break the law, but we certainly have to address the 11 million people who are in this country. many are here who are children by no fault of their own. i appreciate the work that has been done from a bipartisan effort with that group in the

u.s. senate. and looking at that, i will certainly look and work toward having a bipartisan approach. >> the principle of the path to citizenship -- >> earned. i believe in earned path. >> you say earned, you have to pay penalties and fines. the final thing i want ed to as is we talked about the war on coal earlier and republicans are really pushing this against president obama, democrats. democrats are pushing against republicans the idea that there's a war on women. is that something -- do you think there's war on coal has residence? >> had term war i sent a husband off to war. e he served in afghanistan in 2011. when you use the war, let's be careful about how we're using this. but to answer your question about how one side or the other is hurting women, i can tell you that i see when you vote against

equal pay for equal work, that is not doing right by west virginians as my opponents has done. equal pay for equal work for women. she has voted to not increase, voted against increased minimum wage when 67% of west virginians are women and many of them are the head of the households. you are hurting women when you vote against equal pay for equal work or against minimum wage increase or you vote to make medicaid a voucher program. what are women responsible for? and families really responsible for. our parents and our children. families, whether it's women or men, we want to be able to take care of our families and we should have the right to do that t too. >> and finally, if you read the forecast from the crystal ball watchers of politics, when they rate the different senate races

in the country, yours is not on the radar in the same way other states are like kentucky or some of the other marquee states. yet when you look at the history of west virginia, as you have said, this is a state democrats can clearly win. but every other level they can win. i know that right now when i look at the fundraising, you're being outraised with more money. what is your message to national democrats who maybe right now are saying, west virginia, president obama got clobbered there, we're mnot going to win. >> you need to look down deeper. take a deeper look in west virginia and what's going to win this race. that it's someone that represents west virginia values and not washington, d.c. this last quarter we were tied when it came to fundraising. so you need to look at the numbers from the primary election on tuesday. it's what we have been saying all along. the numbers are there for me to win and i'm going to win. it's going to be a good old fashioned ground game.

>> i want to thank natalie tennant for talking with us this week. we also extended an invitation to her opponent to join us. she's welcome on our show any time. up next, we'll look all the how democracy is likely to play out this week in the birthplace of american democracy. ugh. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief.

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that's when democrats in pennsylvania will head to the polls to pick someone to run against tom corr bin, who after slashing education fund iing is probably the most vulnerable governor today. and someone they seem poised to pick has come seemingly out of nowhere only to surge to a lead that no one saw coming. tom wolf, a businessman and former state secretary of revenue who has plopped down $10 million of his own money. that early spending volted him into a lead his opponents have not been able to dent. wolf has broken away by such a stallering margin he's facing brutal attacks like this one from rob mccord in some are calling the most vicious, negative ad of the year. >> he spent millions on tv ads, but now serious questions tom wolf can't answer. why would he chair the campaign of a man arrested pr his role in a race riot, one that left a black woman dead? why would had e standby a man charged with first degree murder? >> democrats like senator bob casey and ed reine dyne dal hav

blasted that ad. a congresswoman started out as the heavy favorite to win it and become the first female governor. she's scrambling to play catch-up and picked up on the mccord attack in a daeblt earlier this week. >> just saying you're for racial justice you were faced with a chance to speak up publicly. you chose not to. if you were faced with that same question presented to you today, would you do the same thing? would you choose not to speak up and say maybe you can work it out quietly? >> this is not where anyone thought had race would be on the eve of the democratic primary. tom wolf is barely known in pennsylvania. you probably should get to know him because he could be on a glide path to one of the most important governorships in the country. i want to ask will bunch, senior

writer. welcome to both of you. will, i will start with you. the ad we just played, the clip from the debate, this whole issue of tom wolf and the back story here is the former mayor of york, pennsylvania, who got arrested in 2011 for an alleged role in a race riot 30 years earlier. he was acquitted. can you fill in the context? is this a fair attack? is this a desperate attack? >> it's definitely a desperate attack. i covered that case in 2011. charlie robert son was acquitted but he also admitted that he was a racist and did shout white power in the middle of a race riot in 1969. the quick back story is that tom wolf was a campaign adviser. when this came out and when the mayor was indicted, wolf was

slow about distancing himself. he was asked by reporters and said let's wait and see rather than cutting him off immediately. that was probably a mistake in hindsight, but i don't know if it's a political death penalty, but that's how they tried to play it. it's just not resinated at all. this is not a donald sterling type thing. no one is accusing tom wolf of being a racist. it's a question of whether he was a little slow to cut his support for a guy who came out had been a racist 30 years earlier. that's just not resinating with people at all. it is backfiring to some extent. it's not helping rob mccord. >> we look at that poll, barring basically a miracle for one of the other candidates, tom wolf is going o win this thing. anyone who has followed this race at all, back then allison

schwartz, the polls put her in front. did allison do something to lose this race? did tom wolf do something to win this race? what happened? this is a shocking turn around. >> well, i mean a couple things. allison is very well known among insiders. she's a good fundraiser and well known in philadelphia. but pennsylvania is such a diverse state. it's like indiana to us here in philadelphia. she's not that well known outside of the philadelphia area. she decided with her poll numbers to lay back. she didn't think voters would pay attention to this race until april and may. tom wolf won this race around january. he aired an ad during the super bowl locally. they were well done ads. he portrayed himself as an anti-politician but basically a self-made millionaire. he's a soft spoken guy. doesn't look like a politician.

he has a beard that resinates with me for some reason. i don't know why. voters really like this guy and nobody else was on the air for two months and by the time the other candidates went on the air it's too late. >> there's the sure sign you have money to spend when you can air ads during the super bowl. my understanding was tom corbett got elected in 2010. his people wants to run against allison and that tom corbett is not the democrat they wanted to face. >> i think people are still learning about tom wolf. he was a complete unknown. he had very effective ads that came out early that helped define him. he's defined himself to pennsylvania voters certainly around the state and that really attributes, i think, can be found as the reason for that substantial lead that he has in the polls. the fall election will be

something different. i suppose that no matter what the polling data says today that a governor will lay over. >> corbett has been down for awhile now. >> he's been down for awhile, but his commercials are starting to air. he reduced unemployment in the state. now unemployment in the state is below the national average. he talks about what he's done in terms of fund iing for schools the state. he's going to come out hard in the fall and make a case to pennsylvania voters to give him a second term base ued on his record. he's been quiet about it. he's a nonpolitician too. >> that sounds like not a smart politician. put the number up there, we'll see. what's essentially a blue state down 19 points. we'll see what happens. it looks like this tuesday you might be electing the next governor of pennsylvania. tom wolf, get to know the name. my thanks to will bunch. grand juries, it's a big week of testimony in the george

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the most definitive sign yet that the white house has already started. the first big smear attack of the 2016 campaign. while social security it's just a run of the mill, it was delivered by a master of the trade and arguably wrote the play book on how such attacks should be carried out. a push poll in the south carolina presidential primary that suggested john mccain had fathered an illegitimate black child, he ran that campaign. the judicial race where a whisper claimed that the rival campaign was a pedophile. . it was so effective that fun of it could be traced back to the campaign manager. what happened this week might have been different. everyone seemed to realize it wasn't true. it's being talked about in a way that hasn't always reflected well on him. i'm talking about karl rove. "new york post" reported that he

insinuated that hillary clinton might be suffering from brain damage. "30 days in the hospital? and when she reappears she's wearing kblass for people with traumatic brain injury. need to know what's up with that." hillary clinton did go to the hospital in 2012 for a blood injury in her head. she was will for three days, not 30. and the glasses she wore for a time after her release were people suffering from double vision, not only for people with traumatic brain injury. she does not wear the glasses now. on wednesday bill clinton used humor to defend his wife. >> well, first of all, i have to give him credit. that embodies that old saying that consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. first they said she faked her concussion. and now they say she's auditioning for a part on "the walking dead."

i mean, whatever it takes. look, she works out every week, she is strong, she is doing great. as far as i can tell she's in better shape than i am. she seems to have more stamina n now. and there's nothing to it. >> on tuesday the day karl rove's remarks were published he went on fox news in an effort to put the toothpaste back in the tube. >> how did this comment come up suggesting that hillary clinton may suffer from brain damage? where did that come from? >> i didn't say she had brain dama damage. she had a serious health episode. my point was that hillary clinton wants to run for president but she would not be human if this didn't enter in as a consideration. this will be an issue in the 2016 race whether she likes it or not. >> so what does this week's attack tell us the man dubbed

bush's brain? he was campaign manager to part-time political pundit. here to try to help answer that is james moore, a co-author of the book "bush's brain." he joins us from austin this morning. joan walsh is back at the table. and joe watkins as well. let's start with this question. we're start of -- this has been in the air all week. the quote got out there. the clinton response got out there. we have been digesting it. the basic question is at the end of this week, can we look back and say did this achieve anything for karl rove? did this achieve anything for republicans? it makes him relevant. in terms of we know the stories they attacked for years.

when hillary was everybody thought the president in waiting. they stopped. when barack obama became president and hillary clinton became secretary of state. they stopped attacking the clintons. now they are going back. so did rove achieve anything? did he wake his party up and say you have to be doing this too or did the party say, no, this is a little too much? >> he got a little pushback. i listened to him take a weird victory lap last night where he basically says, hey, everybody is still talking about it so it accomplished something. here we are talking about it in a way we wouldn't have been. i found it so interesting that in the scandals and the dirty tricks that you allowed to earlier in his career, he had other people doing it. here he was down in the mud and he was throwing the mud balls himself.

that he would take that step, do it himself, be a line associated with something kind of dirty is interesting. >> it's so crazy it's as if he might have some sort of mental issue. >> he hasn't worn the kblass yet. >> a lot of people haven't been talking about the context in which he said this. he said this at a speaking gig with robert gibbs. he and gibbs have been doing this for three years. they get $100,000 a pop. if gibbs was on stage with him and he said this, did gibbs challenge him? and there's been nothing said by gibbs about it as well. we don't know the answer. >> it's an interesting question. jim, let me ask you. you wrote the book on karl rove. so tell us what joan is saying struck me as well. we look at the history of karl rove's dirty tricks. south carolina, 2000, it's his

his fingerprints aren't on these things. now he's shooting his mouth off. he becomes the story and seems to blow up in his face. are you seeing -- is this karl rove's game slipping? what do you make of what he did this week? it seems different than standard fair for him. >> i'm surprised he didn't raise questions about her sexual orientation. he did it to ann richards, former business associates and colleagues. this is long been his kind of m.o. he basically walks by and drops his crap in the punch bowl and walks away and stands over in the corner and giggles as everybody goes over to look at what's floating in the punch bowl, and it works. clearly we're talking about the guy. i think that he's got a problem in that he doesn't have a candidate. he's less relevant except in the fox news world and the far right, and he needs attention. karl has always needed attention. i think it was joan who said that maybe he's got a mental

issue. i have to say that i have believed for a long time that there's a kind of pathology with karl. that he has, as we saw in election night when he could not accept what was happening in ohio, he's always been able to construct these realities and live in them himself and when they fall apart, he's troubled by them. but in this particular case, i believe that he knows exactly what he's doing and he knows the value of it. >> so what's the value of this i wonder to karl rove? what would the game plan be here? would it be to make himself a more relevant figure to the budding 2016 debate? or maybe you can explain this. we know he was w's brain. he was very close to george w. bush. there's the prospect of jeb bush running. is he close to jeb bush? is he angling to get a piece of that campaign? is that part of what's going on here?

>> he's very close to the family, of course, but i don't know whether he would be close enough to jeb bush. i do think jeb realizes that karl will have to be included somehow. the other piece of this has to do with what happened in the last election with karl in his failure to do well with all of that money from the koch brothe brothers. people don't take him as seriously as they did in the past for his effectiveness. they have thrown a lot of money at him and didn't do the things he said in his waning. i think the guy is trying to draw attention back to himself so that no matter what happens in 2016 the republican candidate is going to turn back to karl. >> is that true in the republican universe? the lot was made of karl rove and the super pac losing every race they threw money into. is it true that his influence is waning in the republican party? i look at a super pac and some of the establishment candidates this year who seem to be winning

the primaries. maybe he's trying for a comeback. >> what can you do for me today? it's not what you did in the past, it's not the races you may have won but what can you do for me today and going forward? he has to raise money for his super pac. i think he's doing all those kinds of things. i would assume that as a campaign manager he would have been just as smart as james was in terms of not showing his hand but in getting things hand to undercut his opponents. he's now in a different o mode. he's running a super pac. he's not going to be anybody's campaign manager going forward. he's got to look for new ways to keep himself in the center of the discussion. skbli think that's totally right. as a campaign manager, you keep your fingers off. as someone who makes a lot of money from speaking fees, you do that. he's in sarah palin territory now. we should be ashamed of ourselves for covering him. because this is the kind of

stuff that doesn't deserve coverage. if i was debating rove, i should have won the debate by now. what is he doing still debating out there his relevancy is questionable. >> it does raise the question we wouldn't cover this stuff. this is so over the top, almost hilariously inaccurate. if you don't draw attention, this is the stuff that festers under the radar and it grows. if you don't shine some sunlight on it. >> does anyone think on the fence hillary voter this is the attack that really hits with them? >> you keep doing it. >> it seemed like the clintons there was an initial statement from the clintons that was made light of it and that was it. my understanding is that the clintons both looked at their people and said, no, we need to be more forceful and they wanted to aggressively get out there. >> and so the second statement

was more aggressive. the first statement talked about how we're used to him lying. that was pretty aggressive. they called him a liar. i think we sometimes cover dumb stuff like sarah palin. i think that this story, if he becomes a carnival barker, a donald trump figure where we have to look at our conscious and say we can't cover him, we know what he is. for now he is this formidable figure who has taken a strange turn to be this peddler of dirty, dirty stuff. personally. and i'm interested to hear what jim has to say about it. it seems cross roads doesn't do a lot of positive ads. cross roads tends to come up with the negative ads. so is he just going to be fine being i'm the guy with the bag of dirt? >> you're right. the game is a little different now. before somebody like karl rove or any kind of aspiring

political strategist was at the mercy of a candidate in the campaign. i want to get hired. now it's make yourself appealing to donor who is are going to bankroll your super pac and you can do whatever you want. we're out of time for the segment. i want to thank james moore for joining us. appreciate the insight. we're going to pick up this conversation and talk more about the intersection of age and gender. it's crazy. it's already come up. we'll talk about it when we come back. new car!

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now you could have done it twice. this is awkward. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business. karl rove's effort to raise questions about hillary clinton's health this week was almost laughable. it does underscore something we have known for awhile. her enemies are going to use her

age to stir doubts about her physical and mental health. it's a topic the media will be interested in too. the conservative defenders are using in arguments to all of this will be filtered through the fact she will be 69 if elected and 77 if she serves two terms. if she's elected, she would become the second oldest person sworn in as president just a few months younger than ronald reagan was. is all this treatment just standard fair for aspiring president or does gender play a role too? the news of chelsea clinton's pregnancy was announced. i have a tough time any male candidate expecting a grandchild talking about what it would mean for his 2016 ris. last year when hillary suffered the blood clot concussion that rove was talking about this week, it also stirred up talk about her age.

. there's no doubt hillary clinton's age will push more buttons than if she was a man. how does gender shape how we think or talk about age? we'll pick it back up with the panel. what a coincidence. tell me what you meant by that. what does ha mean? hillary clinton basically the same age as ronald reagan. what buttons? >> 70 is the new 50. >> that's what i think. >> there's a lot of old people that vote. are they aware of that. >> first of all, i think all these questions are valid. there are ways of asking these questions that are completely valid and there are ways that shade into sexism. what i saw in that piece, you go back to 2007ish when she was i think 60 and rush limbaugh was using drudge. i remember this clearly.

drudge put a very unflaltering photo up and you could find a photo that unflattering of a 30-year-old. she didn't look good. and drudge just chose this as an opportunity to muse about was the nation really ready to watch a woman get old before their eyes, which we all do. >> will this country want to actually watch a woman get older before their eyes on a daily basis? >> i'm glad you brought up the picture. one thing that's interesting is it's hard to talk about it because a lot of it is image. a lot of it is a choice of what pictures people use. the ready pr hillary campaign thinks -- most look at clips as print. they look at the pictures that people are using. that's part of their media operation to try to e get better pictures of her out there. that's something that i don't think a male candidate would have. it's hard for me to imagine a staffer looking at just the

pictures of the candidate to make sure they were flattering pictures. that wouldn't happen. >> even for men they do that. they want to make sure he looks his best. >> to make sure he doesn't look old? >> he's much bigger than that. secretary clinton has been around on the national scene for a long time. and obviously if you look at any of the polling data, the reason why she's so an overwhelming favorite for democrats is because she's bigger than age, she's bigger than her gender, people admire her. and women admire her, men admire her, democrats admire her, a lot of independents admire her as well if you look at the polling data. i don't see this being an issue that diminishes her as a candidate going forward. she's going to be a formidable candidate if she decides to run. >> this is what i sort of wonder how to think about this and how to draw the line. it's true i think back to the

elderly presidential candidates we have had in the last generation or so. we talk about reagan. dole was 73. mccain in 2008. i remember all the late night jokes, forgetful jokes. and i remember when dole talked about the brooklyn dodgers. but here's "the washington post" this week saying it's age is not a proxy for gender raising questions about hillary clinton. i think back to 1996. "time" was working on a story, is dole too old for the job. i was sent in with a specific request. they told me to found out whether he died his hair. his aids were furious, but he disarmed the question. dole used a rinse on those prematurely dark locks and added i never touched my eyebrows. there's the dole joke.

it leaves me wondering, dole did not win the election, it wasn't because he dyed his hair. but he had a good representation out of the humor for how he handled himself. can hillary clinton disarm a question with a comment like th that? >> i think she did very well disarming questions about her pantsuits and scrunchies became part of her repertory of jokes. i'm sure she has jokes prepared for this. men do face this when they get around 70. some of these questions are going to be valid, but we also -- the double whammy is that we're constantly scrutinized for our looks and we're judged to be done much earlier than men are judged to be done in the public sphere. that's something that also makes women uncomfortable as well. >> the thing that makes this gendered is women have an expiration date on them that men don

don't. and it is so much about attractiveness. if she looked like some of the actresses we have in the world that are getting up in age, if she looked like helen mirren, we wouldn't be having this conversation. >> if she was a woman, i don't know what that would look like. i don't mean to ruin anybody's breakfast. you can imagine somebody as comparably attractive. >> i'm not sure where you're going with that. >> the female equivalent of john mccain. we'll work on that drawing. >> real quick to say part of me if someone was pro hillary, talk about her experience. we hate it when you talk about how much experience she's had and how long she's been in the public eye. i think that when you think about what's really frightening about hillary for people who are retrograde is her capability. the fact she's so calm and cool

and collected. i'm not sure if this is attack that hits the sweet spot. when people are suspicious of her, when a smear works against her it's because she's a ka nooifing lady mcbeth. i'm. >> the age attack in politics kind of goes, dole is talking about the brooklyn dodgers. the idea that year the clinton campaign was running on the bridge to the 21st century. so he played into the idea that he's a character of the past. reagan, unfortunately, it turned out at some point reagan got alzheimer's. >> we should have asked more questions. >> there were always questions about his mental faculties. he went blank in the debate. so it kind of played into the idea of we should be talking about age. but hillary clinton, she seems like a current person. you can talk about age physically, but she's very sharp, she's very quick. >> secretary of state, let's face it. u.s. senator, first lady of the

united states, she's somebody who has been consistently in the national eye pr the last 20 some odd years. she's not faded at all. her persona has grown over time. i don't think age becomes a factor so much for her. i think americans feel that they know her. whether they are for her or against her, they think they know hillary clinton. so i think the age thing isn't as big a challenge. especially considering the fact she's a baby boomer. and that's a huge part still of the country. so 69 is the new 49. >> that's true as a child of boomers, the idea of my parents becoming senior citizens is -- they are still my parents and middle aged to me. we'll wait for hillary clinton to drop that reagan line. all the details on the breaking news of a new witness before the federal grand jury that's investigating bridgegate. details still ahead. ♪

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we have an update on a story that went viral. the most entertaining political debate. if you spent any time online you know the setup. the republican governor of idaho butch otter has had some trouble on his right flank. he was a little nervous when a conservative state senator decided to challenge him in the gop primary. when he demanded that otter debate him, the governor decided to get mischee vous. i'll debate you on one condit n condition. that every candidate on the ballot gets to take part. not just the two of us. so it was that the world was introduced this week to a biker named harley brown. >> those harleyisms have a lot of warning. you might find this offensive, but i hit everybody. jews, polish people, irish,

italians, religious jokes, and my wife screamed that and we took the real hard core zingers out so in case i catch any flak from people like you, i can fire that back and attack my attackers. i don't like political correctness. can i say this? it sucks. it's bondage. and i'm about as politically correct as your proverbial turd in a punch bowl. i'm going for the voter shs the real people out there, not the bondage type people who don't have a clue about picking up strangers at night and hauling them god knows where. >> also taking part in the debate was walt bays who said god told him to run. >> mr. bays, you said you're running because you have a platform to talk about your views on abortion. if lightning struck and you were

elected governor, could you do the job? >> well, back when they told me that we couldn't home school, i prayed about it. i stood on my hind legs like a man and i told them and the television would talk to me for 30 minutes or an hour. what would they do if they came out to take your kids? i would shoot them. >> that aired on local television and within 24 hours it was a national sensation. last night the biker candidate was a guest on this network with chris matthews. >> president of the united states tomorrow morning, you're sworn in, what are you going to get rid of? what government programs are you going o get rid of? >> the comemys. two-thirds of the federal government is social programs. where in the constitution does it say we have to give all this money out to everybody, provide

health care for everybody, and i would give a scientific swag that 90% of what the fed's do is an unconstitutional do as the communists manifesto. >> i don't think that beefed that one. the primary is coming up this tuesday. we'll see what happens. governor otter probably isn't too upset that we're talking about harley brown and no one seems to be talking about the real politician challenging him. breaking news of a new witness before the bridgegate grand jury. details are next. afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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carsthey're why we innovate. they're who we protect. they're why we make life less complicated. it's about people. we are volvo of sweden. breaking news overnight in the federal investigation into the bridgegate scandal that's been dogging chris christie. they are reporting that patrick foye, the executive of the port authority and ordered the lane closures be end ed. he recently testified before a federal grand jury investigating

the maerlt. when he ordered the lanes reopened last september, foye who was appointed by andrew cuomo. when he made the order he suggested that federal and state law had been broken by christie's team. he was originally scheduled to testify this past week before the legislative committee investigating the closures, but the committee was asked if i bithe u.s. attorney to postpone that appearance so he could first testify in front of the grand jury. he's one of the official who is has been summoned by federal prosecutors. that legislative committee did hold another hearing this week on tuesday with a different witness. a high ranking member of christie's team. if there's one take away from that hearing, it's this. how could chris christie himself a former united states attorney, how could he have missed all the clues practically staring him in the face. christie has been emphatic of his total innocence in the event

surrounding the traffic jam. it neatly fits into the notion that we live in a black and white world where people are clearly guilty or clearly innocent of wrong doing. >> mt. end what the people of new jersey know about me is i tell them the truth. i told them i had nothing to do with it and now you have had all kinds of people looking at this for nearly four and a half months now and there hasn't been one suggestion that i knew anything about it. >> that was christie on wednesday saying what he's been saying over and over again. he said it in his first press after the e-mails came out in january. he all but said it when the law firm hired by his administration issued a report that claimed to exonerate him. that was in march. he said it every time he's been asked about the subject. but here's the thing. we do not live in just a black and white world. there's a lot of gray in it too, which is probably the best way to think about christie in the bridge scandal right now. it was one of christie's longest

serving aids, it was him who was subjected to seven hours of questioning on tuesday by that state legislative committee. take a listen. >> i can say with complete confidence and comfort that none of these people starting with governor christie had any involvement whatsoever in this reckless and perplexing episode. >> and to be clear in all those hours of questioning, the seven hours of questioning, he didn't say anything that suggests christie had any foreknowledge of the lane closures. there was no smoking gun in his testimony to show that christie discovered the true nature before january 8th when the e-mail came to light. but there were some other things that he said that raised questions. the first is this. he testified that david wildstein, the christie port authority appointee who oversaw the lane closures that david

wildstein told him that bridget kelly and bill had known about the lane closures. he testified that he said this back on december 5th. committee member asked him what the governor said when he heard that. >> the other thing you told him was that kelly andstep yen had knowledge. what was his response to that? >> he had one -- he said one thing to me. he said i always wondered if stepian knew about this. >> the december 5th when christie said that that that was agts days before christie loudly denied that anyone many his inner circle knew anything about the closures.

>> i made it very clear to everybody on my senior staff that if anyone had any knowledge about this that they needed to come forward and tell me about it and they have all assured me that they don't. i have spoken to the person in charge of the campaign and she's assured me the same thing. >> but after the testimony this week, bill's lawyer released a letter that contradicts what christie said saying that bill did tell christie he knew about the lane closures the day before he spoke. there's no dispute that at that december 12th, 2012 meeting he informed the governor that the lane realignment was one of mr. wildstein's 50 crazy ideas. there's also this. the executive director of the port authority in the news reportedly for talking to the federal grand jury where he fumed about the lane closures and told him about the closures. he testified that he showed that memo to christie's top lawyer in

october. it was also around that time that he told him that wildstein was claiming that bridget kelly had known about the e closures. as for the reply -- >> i don't specifically recall what he said, but he said we're looking into this. >> i also know that the master report, the report by the law firm that christie's administration hired which claims to exonerate him, that the reports interview memo show that the number one political adviser told christie just before his december 13th press conference, the one where christie insisted that no one in his inner circle knew anything about that, that he was told of the firsthand knowledge of the lane realignment beforehand. we now have testimony that he alerted christie's top lawyer to the potentially serious nature of the lane closures all the way back in october.

that he alerted the same man to kelly's possible knowledge of the closures around the same time. he was told they were looking it. we know he told christie on december 5th that wildstein was adamant that kelly and will bill had known about the closures. . christie was told essentially the same thing by mike duhaime before christie gave the press conference. we also have bill's lawyer saying that he told christie on december 12th the day before that press conference that wildstein told him ahead of time about the idea of closing the lanes. wildstein claimed he told the governor about it as it was happening saying he wouldn't have given thought even if he heard it. despite all of this, christie still went out on december 13th and proclaimed to the world that no one on his senior staff knew anything about any of this. has any proof surfaced that

christie knew for sure that bridget kelly was involved in the closures? no. is there proof? not that we have seen. this is where the world of grays come in. the possibility of something called willful ignorance comes in. we have told you before as the story was building last year, the clock was ticking. back then it was the transportation committee of the state assembly sniffing around and keeping the story alive. but that committee's power to subpoena basically its power to exist was due to expire on january 15th. and if that had happened and it looked like it was going to happen, that probably would have meant the end of this whole story. but then on the morning of january 8th, just one week before that january 15th deadline, the time for some traffic problems e-mail came to light. and everything changed in an instant. from that point forward, there would be no stopping the investigation. so now think about christie in his office and all of those hints that we know were in the air late last year about the

nature of the lane closures. was christie told exact lip who was involved and tried to cover it up? there's absolutely no evidence of that. but he's a former federal prosecutor. he prides himself on his bs detector. . did he have reason to suspect to hope that the clock would tick down to january 15th and it would just go away? did he have an incentive to be willfully ignorant. the more we learn, the more testimony we hear, the more plausible that seems. willful ignorance, something between the black and white world of absolute guilt and absolute innocence. is that what we're going to piend out chris christie is guilty of here? we'll talk about that, next. the numbers are impressive. over 400,000 new private sector jobs... making new york state number two in the nation in new private sector job creation... with 10 regional development strategies to fit your business needs.

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while investing billions improving everything from booking to baggage claim. we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again. we're back to discuss the hint, the warnings that governor christie got about his involvement in the bridge lane

closures and whether or not there was willful ignorance on christie's part. we have contributor brian m murphy, a professor at brook college. welcome back. so we set that up before christie on december 13th goes out there and says absolutely not, no one on my team. we also found out just to add to that, to set this up even further in the testimony this week, he talked about how in early december he knew that wildstein, the point men were goners. so you have that piece of information. then you have all these warnings we documented. then on december 19th, a week of the press conference, this is from "wall street journal" reporter ted man. on december 19th, governor christie said to a colleague, you and your paper will owe an apology to mr. wildstein. given all we know about the warnings, about what he and his administration thought about the work that was done, this seems

consistent with the guy trying to run out the clock here without too many questions being asked. >> he was up against -- they knew that the legislative committee was up against the clock. if they could just stretch this out until january, this could all go away. in some ways they are still using that same press strategy. the other day christie was saying, you guys have had four and a half months to look into this. but you have had all this time, what have you found? and the other plip side to that is you haven't been cooperative and you haven't been forthcoming. >> but his thing is, we're saying black and white, that's what it is. he's saying you don't have a smoking gun and i'm totally exonerated from this. at what point does that -- what is the downside? we can look at all this and say, it looks suspicious here like maybe he didn't want to ask questions, maybe he didn't want to go after this too aggressively, but there's no smoking gun.

can he get away with doing that? >> it got harder once the u.s. attorney started looking into it. if this had the h not gotten to this level and this had gone away in never -- you and i never sat down and had a conversation in january, there wouldn't be a federal investigation of any kind going on. i think that piece kind of makes the press strategy irrelevant because there is a process going on in a -- they have ten investigators working on this in newark. if anybody around had ten lawyers with subpoena power working for a prosecutor full time on this, you could do a lot of work. you could do a lot of damage. that process is going to continue whether or not you and i are other people, the press, do stories every other day, every week or whatever. that becomes -- that process is kind of immune and insulated from the press -- >> so he's ultimately the fate of a force that is -- >> i think so.

>> it's the force that he used to be. >> he should know that. if chris christie was digging into chris christie right now -- >> chris christie the governor would be squirming. >> i think so. >> it really stands out to me that the degree to which -- it wasn't just us. everybody who saw that when the e-mails came out in january and said, oh, my god, time for traffic in ft. lee. he was blindsided. nobody knew this e-mail was coming to light. >> they didn't know the evidence was out there. they knew there was a story there but they didn't know what kind of paper was out there to prove it. that's why this looks so bad for them right now. they had made all these statements in december and throughout the fall like, there's nothing here, nothing is going on, even as they knew there was something up. chris christie said on december 5th, i kind of wonder if my campaign manager might have been involved. why did he think that? if he did, why continue

defending him for that long and why did he have him in that job? they've kept a lot of people around knowing something was awry -- >> his reaction is, i can't believe that. his reaction is, i suspect that. my thanks to brian murphy from brook college. what do we know that we didn't know last week? the answer is right after this. all we do is go out to dinner. that's it? i mean, he picks up the tab every time, which is great... he's using you. he probably has a citi thankyou card and gets 2x the points at restaurants.

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time to find out what our guests know now they didn't know when the week began. >> this is something i knew about but hit me hard this week. on thursday, a friend of the family passed away from a heroin overdose. that happens to 100 people a day. it's an 'em demic. buzzfeed has an excellent article about it. i really want people to read it. >> this week, we learned that bill clinton let the cat out of the bag.

i think now we can be pretty confident that there's going to be a hillary clinton candidacy when he talked about all the attacks that we know are coming because this is just the beginning -- the beginning of what? the beginning -- >> wouldn't be the beginning of the retirement, that's for sure. >> it's sad to know that in certain parts of the world, you can still lose your life for your faith. there's a pregnant woman in sudan who will not recant her christian faith. she will face death now. >> he said earlier in the show there are six statewide offices in virginia and all occupied by democrats. turns out, the attorney general, patrick morrissey, he's a republican. i want to my guests for joining me. thank you for joining us. on tomorrow's show, matt bevin will be here.

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